An Interview with author Ed Delph on his book, Church@Community By the National Pastors’
Prayer Network

February 2007

Ed, what does the title of the book tell us regarding your view of city reaching?

    The title of the book, Church @ Community, suggests that the church is here for the community, not the community for the church. In other words, from a church perspective, we're here because they're here. The church is a community within the community populated by people from the community for the benefit of the community. Don't just grow a church, grow a community. I believe that healthy churches in the 21st century will have to be more community aware and relevant.
    As I said in the book, the church is the only organization in the world that exists primarily for its non- members. The way the church sees the community is the way the community will see the church. If the church sees the community in a negative way, the community will see the church in a negative way. According to your standard of measure, it will be measured unto you.
    For too long, the church has made the community into its own image with the effect of demanding that the community come to the church under church terms and conditions. That's one of the reasons why the church has the largest public relations problem in the world. The church has defined the community in a negative way because of the behavior-driven ethos of the church. The community is negatively defined even before they get into the church. Remember, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Now, the church has to deal with a very negative public relations image from the community. All of this was unnecessary.
    So, in my opinion, we need to show the community that, in spite of our differences, we are for them, not against them. We need to look for a way into the community, not a way out of the community. We serve God by serving the community.

Why are we reading/hearing so much emphasis lately on the need for congregations to engage the culture?

    The reason we are seeing a more concerted emphasis to engage the culture is that we have lost our influence in our culture. According to George Barna, the church is not even in the seven top influencers in United States culture. Frankly, we are on the outside looking in. Our judgmental attitude toward the community and exclusiveness from the community has caused the church to enrage the community or disengage from the community. Like Adam and Eve in the garden, we hide and hurl at the "heathens." Anger and fear will get you nowhere. As a result, the church has been marginalized and defined as a non player in the community realm. And we are angry about it.
    Engaging the culture is what Jesus did. He didn't stay in heaven and declare..."Earth...be saved!" The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Jesus pitched His tent in earth’s neighborhood. Jesus came from heaven to show the way, not preach the way, teach the way, prophesy the way, pray the way, or any other 'way.' If the community can't see us, they won't be us. There will be no transformation without incarnation. That is the way of the gospel. Jesus came to save us-----not from a distance, but from the position of a participant, a fellow human being. After all, salt can't flavor what it doesn't touch.
    Natural men don't understand the things of the Spirit (I Corinthians 2), why would we expect them to? Jesus knew that. That’s why the Son of God became the Son of Man. Jesus knew natural men need a natural man to show them what God is like. That's why the church was always meant to be a player in the leadership of the community. Jesus still does that today through you and me. We are living epistles read by all men. They have to see us in order to be us. That what gives us favor with God and favor with men.
    If the church has, like many churches, withdrawn from the community, the community is free to define us any way they like. They can be totally wrong in their definition. But, the wrong definition will remain as long as we remain embedded in church. In a real way, whoever defines the church wins…in the community transformation context.
    That's why I'm writing a book called....The Redefiners! We, as the church, have some redefining to do. I believe that my and your definition of God, Church and Christians is better than CNN's. But, until we get involved in media once again, there will be no change in definitions. There will be no transformation without incarnation...in media, in government, in education, and in business. The problem is not government, media, etc., the problem is we don’t have enough Christians in these spheres of influence who have the ‘Daniel’ type of wisdom to influence, not alienate. Having wisdom and being in a place to use wisdom are two different things. That's why, in Church @ Community, we envision and empower today's leaders and influencers in church to be some of tomorrow's leaders and influencers in the community.

To some, “spheres of influence” in a new concept. What is a sphere of influence and how does it relate to the Church (or, how should the Church relate to it!)?

    A sphere of influence in the community is actually a 'seat of power and influence' that has a legitimate role in the community for the betterment and enhancement of the community. These spheres of influence were designed to work together for the good of the community. Like the analogy of the body in Romans 12 or 1 Corinthians 12, each has an assignment, measure of ministry, or task that it has been designed to accomplish. For example, government has the role of being the avenger of wrong....not the media. Media has the assignment of reporting the news, not making the news. Education has a very important role also. Chapter 3 in my book explains the five community spheres of influence and who they are designed to work together in order for the community to be all that it can be. These spheres of influence were meant to complete one another, not compete with one another.
    I also show how each of these spheres of influence are biblical and designed by God. The church should not be the government and visa versa. One sphere should not do the assignment of the other spheres of influence. This may sound very radical to some but it makes sense...if you read the book.

Give a one sentence comment about each of these spheres of influence:

*Government.....The Bible says that government is of God and provides the skeleton of chains of command and leadership in a community.
*Business.....In every community, business and people employed by business, were designed to have an enormous role in the creation of wealth and services in a community which enhance a community.
*Education......Education is part of man filling and subduing the earth enabling the focus and awareness necessary to make people in the community better. Wherever education is lacking, the community underachieves.
*Media/Entertainment......Media operates much like the nerves in a body reporting essential information to the community that is crucial to the well being of the community. Media's role is reporting, not making news.
*Church.....The church contributes the essential character core values necessary for the sustainability and effectiveness of the community as well as making known God inspired issues such as salvation, just living and taking care of others.

    These entities or spheres of influence need essential character core values the church supplies or their service to the community will not be sustainable or, at least, greatly impaired.

Your explanation of the principle of Right-or- Wrong and Life-or-Death is vital in understanding why so many Christians don’t “get it.” What don’t we get and why is it so critical?

    The subject of Right-or-Wrong and Life-or-Death is as old as the Garden of Eden. The tree of knowledge is still at work today. As Paul says in I Corinthians 8...all mankind is vulnerable to being puffed up with knowledge. Knowledge is a wonderful servant but a terrible master. Good things taken to extremes become bad things. Just look at the academic elite in today's world...whether in church or 'the world.' It's the same attitude. The devil said....."On the day you eat of it, you shall be like God, knowing God from evil." In other words, you will decide what's right or wrong, you will decide what should happen or shouldn't happen, you take God's place. You become more of a fruit eater or a fruit inspector (generally the latter) than a fruit bearer. You will be judge. That is what the church has tended to do....judge. We tend to see things, not so much the way they are, but as we are. We are generally behavior-driven rather than essence-driven. Jesus ate with the tax gather while the Pharisees stood at the door. Why? Jesus was essence-driven while the Pharisees were behavior-driven. The Pharisees were fishers of sin, not fishers of men. God catches the fish first and then cleans it. The core value of God is being essence-driven first, behavior-driven second. It’s not an either/or, it’s a both/and. We just have to invert the values.
    Those two opposing core values take one to completely different places. Where does it come from? In my book, I talk about how the office of the teacher has been the main influencer of the church for 1700 years. In most cases, teachers tend toward the law, behavior, and knowledge. That has certainly contributed to our judgmental attitude toward the community. If you want the solution, read the book.

”If we are going to reach our neighbors, we had better know their values.” This may be the first time in the history of the church that this is; Why?

In order for a shift to happen, we need to have contact and communication without contamination. It's like a television channel. Both church and community need to get on the same channel for communication. That's what Jesus did. He tuned into Channel Community. He spoke the language of Babylon. He had first contact. Jesus was the first neighborhood activist. He pitched His tent in the world's neighborhood. Like the song says, He showed the way. Remember the Garden of Eden, God walks but the devil talks! If all we talk about are the negatives of the community, we are not going to get anywhere.

What is the role of prayer in engaging a community?

    In Church @ Community, I talk about the importance...even prerequisite of prayer in community transformation. "My house shall be a house of prayer".....Why? The Bible says “for the nations.” In other words, prayer is not an end in itself. It’s the means to an end….the community and nations.
    Please note that prayer is only one ingredient in the prerequisites of community transformation. There are three other ingredients in the recipe also. Each is equally as important. So...let's not make a thing...everything! When you make a thing, everything, you don't get anything...at least in the context of community transformation.
    We need prayer and we need the other components also.

What is the first step a leader should take in moving their church toward a community-centric perspective?

8. You have to see it in order to be it! It all starts with a revelation. Until the pain exceeds the fear, there will be no change. I remember when God started me on this walk. I had a fairly large church of 800+ in Phoenix, Arizona. We were a Christian fellowship...a church where no one but Christians attended. That was what God wanted for seven years. Then I heard God say, almost audibly....."Trade in your Corvette and get a Minivan!" There is such a time as this and such a time as that!
    The concept was "it was fine to be a Christian fellowship then but now I want you to get married and have some kids....I want people to get saved in this church…..I want the next generation" I had to go for it. I started the process with a series called....When the Saints Go March Out! He wanted our people to give the church back to the community. God asked Pastor Ken Gott in Sunderland, England to do the same thing....at almost the same time!
    It has to be personal...not a program! I needed a deep concern for the community. It couldn't be the latest church growth technique, the newest book or the latest fad! It had to be personal! That is where it all started. My advice.....get Church @ Community and let the Holy Spirit speak to you. If He can get through to me, He can get through to anybody! That’s the first step but certainly not the last!

Ed, please write a prayer for the Church to become a transformational agent in the community…

9. I believe the prayer that came out of New Life Church in Glendale, Arizona...one of my favorite places to speak...best exemplifies the prayer of a church for the community.

"Lord, help us to be an influential church for the community. May our lives be an irresistible influence as we commit to passionately serving You. Lord, guide us to be morally pure, grace orientated, people loving, and family centered. Empower us to be financially generous, socially responsible, and evangelistically bold. Change us in order to change the community. Amen."


Ed Delph